Do some black Christians
APPEAR more loyal to their
ethnicity than Christ and His
Gospel?
#ThinkingOutLoud!
Sean IsaacsMay 5, 2018
Shawn Rideau-ScottUh, yeah! It’s called idolatry…this was exposed with the unchecked, evil reign of Barack Obama…
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Sean Isaacs replied · 11 Replies
Tracy-Ann Valentine With all due respect ma’am, why does it have to be “evil”?!
Do you, therefore, then, deem our current President proclaiming the “right” to grab every and any female’s private parts, whenever, wherever and however he wants to… evil?!!!!! This post had nothing to do with Politics! As someone proclaiming to be the bearer of the Gospel, on your FB page, you should know better than to impose your idealistic views onto others. That’s called being “judgemental”! We should all learn to give our viewpoints, respectfully, without scandal or without being counterintuitive.
Do you, therefore, then, deem our current President proclaiming the “right” to grab every and any female’s private parts, whenever, wherever and however he wants to… evil?!!!!! This post had nothing to do with Politics! As someone proclaiming to be the bearer of the Gospel, on your FB page, you should know better than to impose your idealistic views onto others. That’s called being “judgemental”! We should all learn to give our viewpoints, respectfully, without scandal or without being counterintuitive.
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Jorse Barns you have had way too much evangelical koolaid. exercise love and compassion. you don’t need a jesus or a church or preacher to tell you this every sunday!
Shawn Rideau-Scott Jorse Barns, I am FREE to believe how I choose, just as you are free not to. #moveon
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Jorse Barns Shawn Rideau-Scott you are free of course. but when your beliefs and idealism hold back progress for all humans – then you have my attention. some people still believe earth is flat!! should we allow them to spread their thoughts?some people think hate is great — should we allow them to spread their hate?your beliefs are magical – life is real – part take in it – enjoy life instead of professing to other people are how great the after-life could be if if if if if if if ……use your freedom to exercise critial thinking.
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Shawn Rideau-Scott Jorse Barns , again I am FREE to believe what I believe AND profess what I believe. If you choose not to, then do you! I didn’t ask for nor welcome your opinion(s).✌
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Jorse Barns Sean Isaacs Shawn but in genernal I am against all religions and i firmly believe as humans for the sake of progress and to end segregation, we must end this god saving us concept. we also need to end religions because it is constantly giving people a false sense of superiority.
as for the koolaid bit, i was addressing Shawn, referring to the Georgetown suicide in this case the religinous koolaid
as for the koolaid bit, i was addressing Shawn, referring to the Georgetown suicide in this case the religinous koolaid
Tracy-Ann ValentineYou know, Sean, I looked at this post, and at
first glance thought: “Really Sean! Is this really a serious topic of
discussion?!”….
and I could have shook my head and carry on, but then…. I
paused…..and thought to myself: IT IS SO SAD THAT THIS EVEN
HAS TO BE A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION, but he’s just asking a very
pointed question. Much like I would……
…… and the answer is SADLY: Yes!
first glance thought: “Really Sean! Is this really a serious topic of
discussion?!”….
and I could have shook my head and carry on, but then…. I
paused…..and thought to myself: IT IS SO SAD THAT THIS EVEN
HAS TO BE A TOPIC OF DISCUSSION, but he’s just asking a very
pointed question. Much like I would……
…… and the answer is SADLY: Yes!
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Shawn Rideau-Scott I did the same thing…
Sean Isaacs Hey Tracy I appreciate you being open to not just go with the gut reaction. This is a huge topic, because I believe only the church has the answer for the culture. Our nation is extremely divided politically, racially, financially etc. when I start a discussion like this, I am seeking to test the heart of a child of God. I love my blackness, but it should never be more important to me than my Christ likeness. And at times I have to deny my ethnicity (or make it secondary) for the sake of the Gospel. I give a more thorough outline of my position below. I tagged you.
I appreciate your humility and not reacting. Reaction is what most people do to headlines, Posts, soundbites. I think maturity says let me take time to reflect. And to think about my response.
In doing this we obey scripture which says let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath or to get angry. James chapter 1 verses 19 and 20.
I appreciate your humility and not reacting. Reaction is what most people do to headlines, Posts, soundbites. I think maturity says let me take time to reflect. And to think about my response.
In doing this we obey scripture which says let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath or to get angry. James chapter 1 verses 19 and 20.
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Tracy-Ann Valentine Sean Isaacs I did a Personality Type Test that describes my personality type precisely.
ISFJ-A…. see summary attached. You know me well enough to also know that I am less reactive and more analytical…😊
I say that to say, at times, at first glance, we may not be readily receptive to be made “uncomfortable” when pointed, thought-provoking, seemingly unnecessary questions or issues are being raised. However, because of my nature ….being very similar to yours, in some respects, plus with time, wisdom and emotional & spiritual maturity, I am able to take a step back, take reactive *emotion* out of the equation, evaluate and analyze the question and determine, the necessity (unfortunate though that is), of such pointed/thought-provoking question. Unfortunate also, is how some people response was based more on a more narrow perception of what is a wide-scale issue; which is respectfully appreciated on these very sensitive topics. However, like you stated in your general address to all below, shines a light on the very topic of your post.
I am more Spiritual than Religious. I am a Christian with a personal relationship with Christ, first and foremost….. don’t care as much about *Religion*, in the context of how it’s being portrayed generally. In the same breath, I am Black woman, that first and foremost, identify with the Human Race (regardless of ethnicity)…..
I love my race, I am proud to be who I am, but I love God first, and people more! (Once again…. regardless of Race)……. yet, I am no different than any Black woman, man or child, who have suffered being treated unjustly, in certain situations, by authority figures, because of the color (*colour*…staying true to my British English) ….of my skin.
Yet, that does not define me! That does not determine that my allegiance to my skin color comes before the very person who created that skin tone.
So….. yes, I see why you would ponder such.
Sean Isaacs Tracy-Ann Valentine Well said sis. So much great insight and wisdom found in your words. I hope Manny will take it to heart. I know you were very passionate about your roots, and praise God for your history. Yet you understand my point. Thanks for playing along: 🙂
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Emmanuel DavisNo more than some White Christians are toAmerica. I’ve seen many churches with American flags in the sanctuary and even saying the Pledge of Allegiance (during VBS).
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Timothy Butler Every sin has been demonstrated on both sides of the aisle.
Sean Isaacs I see nothing wrong with church’s using flags. In the Bahamas people use the Bahamas flag. In Jamaica they use a Jamaican flag in church. These things I think are fine. I don’t think that’s showing more loyalty to a nation, or an ethic group, more than Christ.
My more detailed response is below.
Thanks Emanuel as usual. I appreciate your thoughts as a man of God, and a student of the Scriptures 🙂.
My more detailed response is below.
Thanks Emanuel as usual. I appreciate your thoughts as a man of God, and a student of the Scriptures 🙂.
Kimmie Robinson Well Paul did have a passion for his people…i love my black people….but it does not take away the love i have for other races.
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Aida GonzalezI think the danger with some of these posts is that it can be race-baiting and divisive. It agitates your ‘All Lives Matter’ contingency to wonder silently or aloud why black people cant just take race out of the picture. And if you don’t get why race is still a big topic of discussion, then you simply don’t want to get it because you don’t feel like it’s your problem. It doesn’t affect you so.., 🤷🏽♀️. The black community has so many needs in order to compete equitably on a global scale. And idolatry doesn’t come to mind when black Christians are expressive about their pride in and support of a historically marginalized US group. Maybe your next post should pose the question ‘ why is it so hard for non-black American Christians to empathize with the plight and testimonies of their black brothers and sisters?
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Sean Isaacs replied · 2 Replies
Gina Mortimer Storr Here’s is why….
Jorse Barns at least the ethnicity is real, why waste time with any religion at all?
Ose Burnett Yes. Absolutely. Many have made their ethnicity greater than god. It’s an Idol. And repentance is needed. Acknowledgment is also needed in order to repent. I am glad that I was born to the family I was born into, and I’m not ashamed to be African (Nigerian)- American. But in the KINGDOM we don’t worship our color, country or race. We have a KING and it surpasses my ethnicity. Thank God for the blood of Jesus that washed the barrier of ethnicity Away! I have brothers and sisters of all races. It’s absolutely beautiful!
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Rebecca Rodriguez Holguin An interesting thought to share indeed Sean! In looking at your question, I’m pondering the use of the word ‘appear’. I want to say, maybe some people do, maybe some people don’t, either way, not really a spiritual position for an individual to diagnose.
I’m also wondering why the use of any racial identifier? Do blacks appear to do this more than other ethnicities? I don’t know.
In my experience, being born into the Church and having spent my most formative years in the environment, I don’t recall ever factoring in my background or culture as it pertains to matters of the spirit. Church=about the soul, right? And, in a way it cocooned me. Seeing how strong cultural/racial identity is in, well, pretty much everything, I spent time observing it and eventually applying it to me. So I’ll say this. Absorbing my history and culture has allowed me to understand a lot about where I come from, what behaviors I’ve adopted from those before me, and why my nucleus operates the way it does. I’ll say there is a lot of hurt in this world and we know the place to find healing is with God. That any perception of loyalty to a race/ethnicity that goes beyond Christ is not coming from a place of idolatry but of pain.
I’m also wondering why the use of any racial identifier? Do blacks appear to do this more than other ethnicities? I don’t know.
In my experience, being born into the Church and having spent my most formative years in the environment, I don’t recall ever factoring in my background or culture as it pertains to matters of the spirit. Church=about the soul, right? And, in a way it cocooned me. Seeing how strong cultural/racial identity is in, well, pretty much everything, I spent time observing it and eventually applying it to me. So I’ll say this. Absorbing my history and culture has allowed me to understand a lot about where I come from, what behaviors I’ve adopted from those before me, and why my nucleus operates the way it does. I’ll say there is a lot of hurt in this world and we know the place to find healing is with God. That any perception of loyalty to a race/ethnicity that goes beyond Christ is not coming from a place of idolatry but of pain.
Sean Isaacs Great thoughts and feedback. As usual, I’ll share my thoughts later. Love the thoughtful engagement.
Frank Runiak I never thought anything like that but maybe the Apostle Paul can shed some light on ethnicity and the gospel.Romans 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my people, those of my own race,
Gina Mortimer Storr Shared this above in response to a comment but want to share here as well, something I heard during a discussion about Christianity and white supremacy and think this sums it up well…. and explains why so many who profess Christ are still so hateful and racist at the same time…. Black folk are no different when it comes to loving our race except we don’t use religion to assert privilege….
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Rick Silvera Hey Sean Isaacs, Once again you are correct.
Sadly, Reading many of the above comments makes me think of how the Lord told the Jews of His day in John 8:23 “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Were Jews of Jesus’ day hated and persecuted by the Romans? Yes! Yet Lord’s primary concerns for His people doesn’t even deal with what we call “social inequality” or racism. His concern is for…
1. That you have an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the church.
2. The you keep yourself pure so the you victimize children by making them fatherless and passing down STD’s to your future generations.
3. That your teach yourself and encourage our family and church brethren to long for the blessed hope (the resurrection of their bodies.
Any other concerns about skin color and ethnicity and of the world, devilish and way beyond our control.
Sadly, Reading many of the above comments makes me think of how the Lord told the Jews of His day in John 8:23 “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Were Jews of Jesus’ day hated and persecuted by the Romans? Yes! Yet Lord’s primary concerns for His people doesn’t even deal with what we call “social inequality” or racism. His concern is for…
1. That you have an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the church.
2. The you keep yourself pure so the you victimize children by making them fatherless and passing down STD’s to your future generations.
3. That your teach yourself and encourage our family and church brethren to long for the blessed hope (the resurrection of their bodies.
Any other concerns about skin color and ethnicity and of the world, devilish and way beyond our control.
Sean Isaacs Hey Gina I always appreciate your thoughts because they make me think. I mean that!
Not sure if you will take time to read all the below, but when I respond I often think of others that will read also. Since this is my first response to this thread, I have others in mind.
MY THOUGHTS:
You may be right about why so many who profess Christ are racist and hateful.
But Scripture makes it clear that those who hate are murderers. And will not inherit eternal life. So it doesn’t matter to me their skin color, privileges or what they call themselves (Christian). I believe millions will be surprised on the day of judgement because they were hateful and murderers, and sadly racist. This testimony and label is supposed to be our life, before Christ.
Scripture describes us before Christ as haters,
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also WERE sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, HATEFUL, and HATING one another.
I used CAPS to emphasize the words that I believe are relevant to our discussion.
Regarding what God will do with haters and racists, note:
1Jn 3:15 WHOSOEVER HATETH his brother IS a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Sadly, there are many racist, in and outside the church. But they won’t fool God 🙂.
Referring to Karen Hunter’s quote, my experience about who forgets their race is opposite. I spend a lot of time around white people. I NEVER hear any of them talking about their whiteness, privileges or racial issues. I do hear lots of blacks do it. Even in mix company.
Just my experience. Karen’s experience and yours may be different.
My question/post above is about being MORE loyal to an idea, ideology or ethnic group, MORE than loyalty to Christ.
I gave no qualifications as to what I meant by MORE LOYAL. This was a test to see how blacks would respond. So it’s interesting how many people felt the need to defend their blackness. No judgement on my part. Just testing the culture.
I have no issue with someone being loyal to their ethnicity or “people.” I am loyal to mine.
I say “people” because the black Christian now has more than one set of “people.” First, He/she has his ethnic group whom he should love and be willing to lay down his life for, if it means their salvation. note Paul’s example:
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for MY BRETHREN, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Secondly, he/she (The Christian) is now also part of the people of God. And should ALSO be loyal to that group:
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, ESPECIALLY unto them who are of the household of faith.
In every ethnic group there are people more loyal to their ethnicity than to Christ. How do we know?
Usually, they are more willing to fight for racial issues than Spiritual ones. They become more offended when their ethnicity is slighted. Yet are silent when Christ name, church or gospel, is slighted.
Btw: WHITE SUPREMACY or BLACK SUPREMACY or any supremacy, is SIN. Doesn’t mater who is exercising it!
Therefore, because some people feel and act supreme to others, and yet call themselves Christians, doesn’t mean that Christ recognizes them as His own followers. Scripture reminds us:
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth THEM THAT ARE HIS. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
I love my blackness and my ethnicity. I won’t change it for anything. And like Paul, I especially love “my own” people. This is why I post these type of things to generate discussion and dialogue. But I don’t love my color or race more than Christ.
By that I mean, when fighting for my rights or race, dishonors the name of Christ and His Gospel, or sows discord or division among His people down other races, then I choose the people of God (of all races) over my lineage, blood relations or ethnicity.
I believe the text below gives a basic principle of how followers of Christ should think about relationship priorities:
Note VS. 50
Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
The above verses or text tells me that my loyalty or supreme loyalty should always be to God’s people, even more than my blood relatives, if they (blood relations) are not doing the will of my father!
NOTE TO RESPONDERS
I am tagging you guys because I saw Some of your responses, and felt that some of what I said here, may answer some of your questions about my post.
Not sure if you will take time to read all the below, but when I respond I often think of others that will read also. Since this is my first response to this thread, I have others in mind.
MY THOUGHTS:
You may be right about why so many who profess Christ are racist and hateful.
But Scripture makes it clear that those who hate are murderers. And will not inherit eternal life. So it doesn’t matter to me their skin color, privileges or what they call themselves (Christian). I believe millions will be surprised on the day of judgement because they were hateful and murderers, and sadly racist. This testimony and label is supposed to be our life, before Christ.
Scripture describes us before Christ as haters,
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also WERE sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, HATEFUL, and HATING one another.
I used CAPS to emphasize the words that I believe are relevant to our discussion.
Regarding what God will do with haters and racists, note:
1Jn 3:15 WHOSOEVER HATETH his brother IS a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Sadly, there are many racist, in and outside the church. But they won’t fool God 🙂.
Referring to Karen Hunter’s quote, my experience about who forgets their race is opposite. I spend a lot of time around white people. I NEVER hear any of them talking about their whiteness, privileges or racial issues. I do hear lots of blacks do it. Even in mix company.
Just my experience. Karen’s experience and yours may be different.
My question/post above is about being MORE loyal to an idea, ideology or ethnic group, MORE than loyalty to Christ.
I gave no qualifications as to what I meant by MORE LOYAL. This was a test to see how blacks would respond. So it’s interesting how many people felt the need to defend their blackness. No judgement on my part. Just testing the culture.
I have no issue with someone being loyal to their ethnicity or “people.” I am loyal to mine.
I say “people” because the black Christian now has more than one set of “people.” First, He/she has his ethnic group whom he should love and be willing to lay down his life for, if it means their salvation. note Paul’s example:
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for MY BRETHREN, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Secondly, he/she (The Christian) is now also part of the people of God. And should ALSO be loyal to that group:
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, ESPECIALLY unto them who are of the household of faith.
In every ethnic group there are people more loyal to their ethnicity than to Christ. How do we know?
Usually, they are more willing to fight for racial issues than Spiritual ones. They become more offended when their ethnicity is slighted. Yet are silent when Christ name, church or gospel, is slighted.
Btw: WHITE SUPREMACY or BLACK SUPREMACY or any supremacy, is SIN. Doesn’t mater who is exercising it!
Therefore, because some people feel and act supreme to others, and yet call themselves Christians, doesn’t mean that Christ recognizes them as His own followers. Scripture reminds us:
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth THEM THAT ARE HIS. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
I love my blackness and my ethnicity. I won’t change it for anything. And like Paul, I especially love “my own” people. This is why I post these type of things to generate discussion and dialogue. But I don’t love my color or race more than Christ.
By that I mean, when fighting for my rights or race, dishonors the name of Christ and His Gospel, or sows discord or division among His people down other races, then I choose the people of God (of all races) over my lineage, blood relations or ethnicity.
I believe the text below gives a basic principle of how followers of Christ should think about relationship priorities:
Note VS. 50
Jesus’ Mother and Brothers
Mat 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
The above verses or text tells me that my loyalty or supreme loyalty should always be to God’s people, even more than my blood relatives, if they (blood relations) are not doing the will of my father!
NOTE TO RESPONDERS
I am tagging you guys because I saw Some of your responses, and felt that some of what I said here, may answer some of your questions about my post.
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Sean Isaacs replied · 5 Replies
Frank Runiak Well said Sean ! One thing binds all the human race is that we are all sinners and what makes us one are those who are in Christ. And here are some more reminders in scripture.
1 Corinthians 12:12-14
Unity and Diversity in the Body
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
1 Corinthians 9:21-23
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things.
1 Corinthians 12:12-14
Unity and Diversity in the Body
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.
1 Corinthians 9:21-23
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.
Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things.
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Ose Burnett LOVE!!! Now that’s a biblical answer from the Word that we can’t argue with. Grateful for this answer, especially in the day and age that we are living in.
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Neil Robinson Great response Ose. However we can’t just simplify all things by just lumping it under sin. It’s irresponspible & lazy. That ia one of the major problems I’m having with western & new thought Christianity. We can just diminish, devalue & ignore real issues by saying oh it’s sin. Love is the key, need to get saved whatever without coming up with real active solutions. Like when people have legitmate mental issues folk want to throw scriptures at it. Like really come on let’s not be so spiritual that we are no longer earthly good.
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Sean Isaacs Neil Robinson hey brother. Hope you and family are well.
If we don’t use Scripture, what other solution is there?
I agree some people spiritualize everything. But that should not diminish the power of God, His Word or The Gospel.
I don’t think there are any other solutions. Open to dialogue as usual 🙂.
If we don’t use Scripture, what other solution is there?
I agree some people spiritualize everything. But that should not diminish the power of God, His Word or The Gospel.
I don’t think there are any other solutions. Open to dialogue as usual 🙂.
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Sean Isaacs By the way I used the word APPEAR, to leave room that I don’t know the heart of any child of God. So I wouldn’t stand as an authority over anyone to say that they are more loyal to their ETHNIC GROUP than to Christ. That’s the reason for APPEAR being in caps. But those who are guilty, may the Holy Spirit be the revealer Of hearts.
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Kevin M. OliverThis is one of the biggest lies ever told about Christians who are Black, who are interested in history, who enjoy celebrating their ethnicity and culture, and who care about issues of racial discrimination and the Unity of the Body.
The Bible contains consistent teaching (including from Christ himself) against maintaining partiality and double-standards. It is only Black Christians who are made to “appear” this way — even when standing on solid doctrinal ground.
Black Christians are made to appear “more loyal to their race and ethnicity” when they speak of or advocate on the aforementioned because it’s the agenda of the white Evangelical establishment to demonize and suppress this kind of thinking because it does not want to deal with the fruits of its legacy.
The Bible contains consistent teaching (including from Christ himself) against maintaining partiality and double-standards. It is only Black Christians who are made to “appear” this way — even when standing on solid doctrinal ground.
Black Christians are made to appear “more loyal to their race and ethnicity” when they speak of or advocate on the aforementioned because it’s the agenda of the white Evangelical establishment to demonize and suppress this kind of thinking because it does not want to deal with the fruits of its legacy.
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Sean Isaacs replied · 3 Replies
Neil Robinson Bam! Exactly Kev!
Sean Isaacs Hey Kevin M. Oliver as usual. You make great points. Not much here that I disagree with. The phrase MORE THAN should provide clarity and understanding (Prov. 4:7). I believe when my passion or commitment to my race/ethnicity is such that it separates me from other believers, in any way, then I am MORE loyal to race over Christ.
Christ says a disciple must lay down his life to be His disciple.
Btw: the same question I posed could have been asked of White Christians. There is not a people group on earth that is not tempted to love race, MORE THAN Christ.
If we can put our family, friends, material possessions etc. before Christ, I am not supposed that some out their race before Christ.
Christ says a disciple must lay down his life to be His disciple.
Btw: the same question I posed could have been asked of White Christians. There is not a people group on earth that is not tempted to love race, MORE THAN Christ.
If we can put our family, friends, material possessions etc. before Christ, I am not supposed that some out their race before Christ.
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Rick Silvera Kevin Kevin M. Oliver, Just a thought but I think that this is a matter of perspective from where an individual stands.
The hub of the Old Testament is focused on righteousness and the coming of the Messiah.
Whereas the primary focus if the New Testament is the resurrection of Jesus and the blessed hope that you and I will one day be resurrected in the kingdom of God. Because such things as ethnic hated, slavery (both legal and illegal), sexual immorality and violence has always been a part of the human condition not too much emphasis is placed on this subject.
I who grew up in the 70s and learned of the history of ancient cultures, the enlightenment period and the rise of communism find it frustrating when I attempt to engage black people in history but their (pardon the example) their record is stuck on race and everything they know must revolve around that.
The hub of the Old Testament is focused on righteousness and the coming of the Messiah.
Whereas the primary focus if the New Testament is the resurrection of Jesus and the blessed hope that you and I will one day be resurrected in the kingdom of God. Because such things as ethnic hated, slavery (both legal and illegal), sexual immorality and violence has always been a part of the human condition not too much emphasis is placed on this subject.
I who grew up in the 70s and learned of the history of ancient cultures, the enlightenment period and the rise of communism find it frustrating when I attempt to engage black people in history but their (pardon the example) their record is stuck on race and everything they know must revolve around that.
Kevin M. Oliver replied · 4 Replies
Kevin M. Oliver Rick Silvera said, “I find it frustrating when I attempt to engage black people in history but their (pardon the example) their record is stuck on race and everything they know must revolve around that.”
1) Rick, I’m 50. I grew up in the 70s and 80s, and learned all the stuff you did. I received what would generally be considered an excellent public school education (in an almost all black suburban neighborhood, elementary school, and high school in metro Atlanta Georgia). But you know what I DIDN’T learn? I didn’t learn really anything about African-descended people and their contributions to the advancement of human civilization. And what little I did learn I later found out was wrong or had been purposely suppressed.
2) Regarding frustrations when engaging people about history one of mine is that many white people think or assume black people don’t know American and world history. They often assume this patriarchal attitude, as if it’s their duty to teach black people something when they are actually the ones who have a much more to learn.
3) The pushback you say you experience from Black people when engaging in discussions about history, in my opinion is largely a byproduct of being in the information age. More specifically, Black people over the past few decades have learned they have been lied too, by the dominant society to include teachers, preachers, the government. Further, that just about everything so-called Western Civilization is built on the scientific, philosophical, and religious achievements of African people. This has led to a general distrust and skepticism of anything white people have to say about history. Now you may think this is irrational or unfair, but this is NOT the fault of Black people. This is the legacy of the psychological effects of racism/white supremacy, certain people say is a myth and doesn’t exist anymore.
1) Rick, I’m 50. I grew up in the 70s and 80s, and learned all the stuff you did. I received what would generally be considered an excellent public school education (in an almost all black suburban neighborhood, elementary school, and high school in metro Atlanta Georgia). But you know what I DIDN’T learn? I didn’t learn really anything about African-descended people and their contributions to the advancement of human civilization. And what little I did learn I later found out was wrong or had been purposely suppressed.
2) Regarding frustrations when engaging people about history one of mine is that many white people think or assume black people don’t know American and world history. They often assume this patriarchal attitude, as if it’s their duty to teach black people something when they are actually the ones who have a much more to learn.
3) The pushback you say you experience from Black people when engaging in discussions about history, in my opinion is largely a byproduct of being in the information age. More specifically, Black people over the past few decades have learned they have been lied too, by the dominant society to include teachers, preachers, the government. Further, that just about everything so-called Western Civilization is built on the scientific, philosophical, and religious achievements of African people. This has led to a general distrust and skepticism of anything white people have to say about history. Now you may think this is irrational or unfair, but this is NOT the fault of Black people. This is the legacy of the psychological effects of racism/white supremacy, certain people say is a myth and doesn’t exist anymore.
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Rick Silvera During your previous post you spoke if…
“celebrating their ethnicity and culture and who care about issues of racial discrimination and the Unity of the Body.”
Yet Paul’s view of the Lord’s body according to Galatians 3:28 is “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
So please so me the scriptural precedent in (as you said) “celebrating their ethnicity “.
Secondly you said…
“The Bible contains consistent teaching (including from Christ himself) against maintaining partiality and double-standards.”
The only double standard is preaching that we believe in Reformation theology and Christ forgiveness of sins while hurling collective racial guilt on White people for the sins of their ancestors. So much for Ezekiel 18.
Lastly Brother, You need to show me in scripture where the Lord has empowered Black people with the ability to read the hearts and mind of White people and judge them as racist.
“celebrating their ethnicity and culture and who care about issues of racial discrimination and the Unity of the Body.”
Yet Paul’s view of the Lord’s body according to Galatians 3:28 is “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
So please so me the scriptural precedent in (as you said) “celebrating their ethnicity “.
Secondly you said…
“The Bible contains consistent teaching (including from Christ himself) against maintaining partiality and double-standards.”
The only double standard is preaching that we believe in Reformation theology and Christ forgiveness of sins while hurling collective racial guilt on White people for the sins of their ancestors. So much for Ezekiel 18.
Lastly Brother, You need to show me in scripture where the Lord has empowered Black people with the ability to read the hearts and mind of White people and judge them as racist.
Kevin M. Oliver “Lastly brother you need to show me in Scripture…”
Firstly, Rick Silvera, I don’t “need” to explain anything. Let’s get that straight first. Now previously, you sought an explanation as to why you have a certain experience when engaging Black people in discussions about history. And I took the time to graciously explain that.
But now, I see that you don’t want to learn anything, engage in obfuscation when challenged, and insist on telling lies and promoting stereotypes about Black people. For this reason, I will waste no further time with you.
Now I know you’re going to say that I’m exiting the conversation because I’m not capable of providing a biblical refutation. I will save you from typing by telling you I will not respond to that either.
Firstly, Rick Silvera, I don’t “need” to explain anything. Let’s get that straight first. Now previously, you sought an explanation as to why you have a certain experience when engaging Black people in discussions about history. And I took the time to graciously explain that.
But now, I see that you don’t want to learn anything, engage in obfuscation when challenged, and insist on telling lies and promoting stereotypes about Black people. For this reason, I will waste no further time with you.
Now I know you’re going to say that I’m exiting the conversation because I’m not capable of providing a biblical refutation. I will save you from typing by telling you I will not respond to that either.
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Kirk Martin Black Christians and Black people in general are always admonished and chastised, because we are an easy target. This speaks to the POWER dynamic in society. As it relates to American Christianity, you won’t hear much about White’s vile history as a group and how this racial division even started and maintained to this day. Nope you won’t hear anything about that at all. Its just “Blacks are worshipping this idol of race”. When #1 Blacks didn’t even create the concept of RACE. #2 Blacks never created, nor had the POWER to forge this division. #3 Contrary to popular belief, Black People (including Christians) have been the most forgiving and submissive to people of other ethnicities than any other group. We know this to be the truth.
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Sean Isaacs replied · 3 Replies
Neil Robinson Y’all stop lighting it up like this here. In many people’s mind their is no room, tolerance for logic, critical thinking when it comes to religion & reality. You are exactly right Kirk Martin. We didn’t create it. We are historically the most forgiving & submissive people. Thus why Christianity & many of it’s tenants work “well” within the confines of the institutional church. The minute we want to feel good about ourselves, notice injustice done to us. Its oh shut up put in the Lord’s hand. Mannnnn I sure wish other races would have practice the same. We’d be better off, seen as equals & not had such an list long of injustice done to us.
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Sean Isaacs Neil Robinson Christians should be the most “forgiving and submissive” people. And I praise God for what you described as blacks historically compared to other ethnic groups
I can promise you that person or any race will regret not being forgiving or submission on the day of judgement.
Sadly injustice in this life is not always corrected. That’s why we put our trust in God’s Word that says vengeance belongs to him. He will repay. I am okay with waiting when my resources and options for justice runs out. This is called FAITH.
I can promise you that person or any race will regret not being forgiving or submission on the day of judgement.
Sadly injustice in this life is not always corrected. That’s why we put our trust in God’s Word that says vengeance belongs to him. He will repay. I am okay with waiting when my resources and options for justice runs out. This is called FAITH.
Neil Robinson Rick I don’t think you want to use that 1st scripture as a foundation to support race, gender as not being relevant in the faith. This where I have said time & time again. That scripture context is not found in that verse but it’s several verses. The gist of that text is talking about faith. This is one the things that really I mean really irks me about Christians sometimes be it in error others ignorance. We like to play smorgasbord or fast & loose with the text. If the idea is to be taken literally there is not jew, greek, free, slave, male, female etc. Then we must apply it to the male, female part also. Not pick & choose literal portions of a text to support our positions. Therefore this is where the slippery slope comes in. How can we therefore condemn same sex unions whatever seeing as there is no male or female? Now we both know that marriage without a doubt holy consist of male female but I hope you get my point.
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Rick Silvera replied · 5 Replies
Rick Silvera Neil Robinson When a Black man confesses his sins to the Lord is he responsible to repent for abortions he had nothing to do with? Or the high rate of violent crimes in urban areas around the country? Must he (who waited to get married before having children) repent for the high illegitimacy rate?
Is God looking for this man’s salvation to be collective or is He dealing with the individual?
Is God looking for this man’s salvation to be collective or is He dealing with the individual?
Neil Robinson Rick Silvera Initially I’m going to say individual but let me mull over it a bit…..
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Kirk Martin This is hilarious. Abortion, Black on black crime… lol. Ok, please show me where ALL white people are being blamed for the SYSTEM of white supremacy? Where ALL white people are being blamed for slavery & jim crow? The focus revolves around a system of racial injustice, those who aggressively & passively agrees with it. And attacks the VICTIMS of this injustice, with guilt. What side do you fall on justice or injustice, especially as a professed Christian?
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Neil Robinson Exactly why is the victim always the blame especially when it comes to us. Officer kills black male……..response in many cases. Hey but black men are killing black men in Chicago. No kidding we know that & we acknowledge it is wrong. I say a black man that unjustly kills another black should receive a harsher judgment than guilty white cops killing black men. But what kind of response is that to dealing specifically with one issue talking about another. We don’t tell white people facing an heroin crisis in their community to focus on another issue. The problem simply put is because we are speaking out. A silent negro has always been a “good boy”.
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Rick Silvera Kirk Martin Read your statements man! What distinction have you made between the few white people who kept slaves and made those laws, the white people who fought them and the majority of White people who were just living life in the midst of the craziness?
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Kevin M. Oliver In a nutshell, I resent having to explain to white people or anyone else, why I as a Christian, appreciate Black History Month, enjoy visiting Africa and learning about its various cultures, like some of the things Louis Farrakhan says, advocate for the strengthening of Black families, and support certain civil rights efforts. White Christians aren’t asked to explain anything they do. Further, none of these things are in conflict with essential biblical doctrine. It’s only an issue because black people are doing something other people think they shouldn’t be doing.
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Sean Isaacs Hey bro Kevin M. Oliver truly sorry to hear about your experience. The need to explain….
My question had nothing to do with white people. I am a black man asking black FB followers who profess to Love Christ, if it’s possible to be more loyal to race, than Christ? I say yes. Wanted to see how others think. Everyone’s feedback is helpful.
My question doesn’t judge anyone for feeling or being loyal to their ethnicity. I am loyal to mine. That’s why I asked.
It’s all about GREATER loyalty. . I believe we can put anything before Christ. That includes the color of it skin and all that that represents.
Btw: reading over many of your comments is insightful. Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God, without error?
My question had nothing to do with white people. I am a black man asking black FB followers who profess to Love Christ, if it’s possible to be more loyal to race, than Christ? I say yes. Wanted to see how others think. Everyone’s feedback is helpful.
My question doesn’t judge anyone for feeling or being loyal to their ethnicity. I am loyal to mine. That’s why I asked.
It’s all about GREATER loyalty. . I believe we can put anything before Christ. That includes the color of it skin and all that that represents.
Btw: reading over many of your comments is insightful. Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God, without error?
Sean Isaacs Hey Kirk Martin after reading through your notes, Neil Robinson and Kevin M. Oliver ‘s, it looks like you guys have some different views from some of the other comments. If you guys are open to it and believe it can be done is a respectful manner, I would like to create an opportunity for discussion. Maybe a round table. If you have interest we can start with a simple Conf call.
My purpose for doing this is so different perspectives can be heard, understood and digested.
I also understand if your not interested. I have no agenda 🙂.
My purpose for doing this is so different perspectives can be heard, understood and digested.
I also understand if your not interested. I have no agenda 🙂.
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Neil Robinson I mean Jesus did exactly the same in Matt 15. We can approach the text on the surface as one of compassion, charity etc. But if we were to carefully dissect the text at it’s root. The story has just as much to do with race, ethnicity, classism & the unfortunate to oppressed. Jesus being a Jew confronted by a woman who was not a Jew. Ask for bread even to the point of receiving crumbs as a dog would. Now Jesus admits, aligns himself with the scripture that confirms even the Lord himself has a people chosen unto Himself. “I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel”. That phrase in it’s most purest form admits I help my own. Now I ask do we pick & chose what examples we will glean from the texts. After the women begs him then submits herself to being less than & being that like unto a dog. I believe that is when He has pity on her in acknowledging her lesser state & then helps her because of her persistence. Are we to ignore the fact that everything in here reflects classism, race etc? This is no different than what has happen to people in our days. You’re less than human, you cannot sit here, drink here, live here etc without the fear of some loss. Now we say ok let’s do us we are attack, ridiculed, chastise & shamed for wanting say you know what we need to uplift ourselves. Be it economically, financially, spiritually & the more.
Eugene Williams Being more loyal to one’s ethnicity than to Christ and His Gospel is an age old condition that is not just unique to black folks…Trump supporters are proof of that
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Sean Isaacs All ethnicities have been and are guilty of idolatry. You are correct. Just wanted to see how many of my people are willing to acknowledge or admit it. Thanks Eugene.
Eugene Williams Why do Black folks continually ask Black folks to do things that they don’t ask white folks to do?
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Sean Isaacs replied · 9 Replies
Sean Isaacs Explain. I don’t understand your question.
Sean Isaacs I understand what you’re saying Eugene. I don’t think the question requires context. The question is very simple:.
Do some black Christians appear to be more loyal to their blackness than to Christ?
Keywords are SOME
And: APPEAR
I have no problem with blacks being loyal to our blackness. But Christian blacks should not be MORE LOYAL to ethnicity than Christ.
The question wasn’t asked of all blacks. But Christian blacks.
THE Christian’s first priority and greatest allegiance must be Christ and Him alone. By saying that, doesn’t mean that I believe ethnic groups should not feel and live an example that demonstrates some loyalty to race/culture.
I think it’s also important to note that black Americans were, and are not the only people groups to be mistreated, discriminated against or murdered because of their race or status.
The Samaritans from the Jews,
Jews From the Germans,
Ethnic tribes in Africa from Each other,
Haitians from other Caribbean people
Native Indians from Americans and British,
Jews from Romans,
South Koreans from North Koreans…..
The Gospel requires that each of the groups above release their persecuted and haters from their debts. I see no where in Scripture that God provides room for a racially mistreated race to hold future races accountable for what their ancestors did.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Forgiveness, redemption and reconciliation are themes of the Bible. God will not allow a Jewish believer, living in Germany today, whose ancestors were murdered because of their race, to hold malice, bitterness, in forgiveness…. in their hearts.
God goes as far as to say:
Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
I suspect that in the day of judgement as I stand before God, my race will have little meaning. All that would matter is did I fulfill God’s law to Love Him supremely and to Love others, AS I love me.
Blacks are not the only people group that have been oppressed as mentioned above. The Jewish people were persecuted and mistreated because of their race for more than 3000 years.
No black in America today is a slave. Accept to our sin. I don’t hold whites today responsible for what their ancestors did. Doesn’t mean racism
Is not still present. But I don’t hold a complete people group responsible for what their ancestors did.
Lastly,
Yes, many whites that call themselves Christian have acted superior to others since the founding of this country. Some still do. But I suspect they will find out they were deceived and not inherit the kingdom of God.
No one that hates his brother will inherit eternal life.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
RACISM is normal because mankind is sinful. More than 160 million
Indians today are going through the same thing that blacks did in this country. If I preach the Gospel to them I will challenge them to love and pray for their enemies.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/…/0602_030602…
Btw: my question could be asked if any ethnic group. I ask blacks because I am a black Christians and FEEL somewhat responsible for my own people.
Do some black Christians appear to be more loyal to their blackness than to Christ?
Keywords are SOME
And: APPEAR
I have no problem with blacks being loyal to our blackness. But Christian blacks should not be MORE LOYAL to ethnicity than Christ.
The question wasn’t asked of all blacks. But Christian blacks.
THE Christian’s first priority and greatest allegiance must be Christ and Him alone. By saying that, doesn’t mean that I believe ethnic groups should not feel and live an example that demonstrates some loyalty to race/culture.
I think it’s also important to note that black Americans were, and are not the only people groups to be mistreated, discriminated against or murdered because of their race or status.
The Samaritans from the Jews,
Jews From the Germans,
Ethnic tribes in Africa from Each other,
Haitians from other Caribbean people
Native Indians from Americans and British,
Jews from Romans,
South Koreans from North Koreans…..
The Gospel requires that each of the groups above release their persecuted and haters from their debts. I see no where in Scripture that God provides room for a racially mistreated race to hold future races accountable for what their ancestors did.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Forgiveness, redemption and reconciliation are themes of the Bible. God will not allow a Jewish believer, living in Germany today, whose ancestors were murdered because of their race, to hold malice, bitterness, in forgiveness…. in their hearts.
God goes as far as to say:
Matthew 6:14-15
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
I suspect that in the day of judgement as I stand before God, my race will have little meaning. All that would matter is did I fulfill God’s law to Love Him supremely and to Love others, AS I love me.
Blacks are not the only people group that have been oppressed as mentioned above. The Jewish people were persecuted and mistreated because of their race for more than 3000 years.
No black in America today is a slave. Accept to our sin. I don’t hold whites today responsible for what their ancestors did. Doesn’t mean racism
Is not still present. But I don’t hold a complete people group responsible for what their ancestors did.
Lastly,
Yes, many whites that call themselves Christian have acted superior to others since the founding of this country. Some still do. But I suspect they will find out they were deceived and not inherit the kingdom of God.
No one that hates his brother will inherit eternal life.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
RACISM is normal because mankind is sinful. More than 160 million
Indians today are going through the same thing that blacks did in this country. If I preach the Gospel to them I will challenge them to love and pray for their enemies.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/…/0602_030602…
Btw: my question could be asked if any ethnic group. I ask blacks because I am a black Christians and FEEL somewhat responsible for my own people.
Eugene Williams But if you’re a Christian, aren’t all Christians your people? And if all Christians are your people, then shouldn’t your original question be posed to all Christians regardless of their race?
Sean Isaacs Eugene Williams good question. I answered that above. I hit send by mistake before I was done 🙂.
I ask blacks because I am black. And I have been witnessing lots of black loyalty that is dividing itself from other Christian brethren – this is sin!
To your question about asking the same question to White’s or over ethnic groups. Our society is so sensitive and easily offended, I suspect some may reject my question because I am not part of their ethnic group.
But you are correct. Many White Americans worship America, Military, the Constitution etc. and put these before loving people and Christ.
But the simple answer as to why BLACKS is. I feel a unique responsibility to the black community.
Like, Paul, I have a special burden for my KINSMEN. I don’t think blacks will hear it from another race any way. Everything now is interpreted racist. If a white Christian posted the same question, I can’t imagine what the responses would be.
Here is my example:
Roma. 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my KINSMEN according to the flesh:
Kinsmen – a person of the same nationality or ethnic group.
Neil Robinson Hello! Truth Eugene.
Eugene Williams We are all created in the image of our Father…so I would assume a common ancestor would supercede the concept of naionality and/or ethnicity, thereby making us all “kinsmen”
Aida Gonzalez Here’s the problem I have with your post Sean Isaacs. As I suspected, your post TARGETS blacks, because you say you’ve been witnessing ‘black loyalty’ that is divisive and sinful…. 🤦🏽♀️ I say YOUR post is divisive. It targets your black brethren who have not displayed idolatry but instead recognize and passionately call out the need for healing, equality and wholeness. And the reason this is an issue for you and many of your friends is that you say you ‘stand with MAGA – since America has always been great to you’. Therefore,
you cannot entirely relate to your black brethren who advocate for more black power as our way of jockeying for a place at the table that you act like we are all invited to. I say the tone of your post will not draw anyone to Christ. I say you’re not going to convince black Christians that their issue is the idolatry of blackness.
If your logic is true, when Christians are marching to defend ‘right to life’ issues and marriage between one man and woman, let’s ask next, whether ‘heterosexuality’ and ‘right to life’ are idols for Christians too. 🙄
you cannot entirely relate to your black brethren who advocate for more black power as our way of jockeying for a place at the table that you act like we are all invited to. I say the tone of your post will not draw anyone to Christ. I say you’re not going to convince black Christians that their issue is the idolatry of blackness.
If your logic is true, when Christians are marching to defend ‘right to life’ issues and marriage between one man and woman, let’s ask next, whether ‘heterosexuality’ and ‘right to life’ are idols for Christians too. 🙄
Sean Isaacs Eugene Williams Paul’s Kinsmen were Israelites. Not all men.
Dazang Ranking Deezed Gwom True….its a reproach.
Peter Wilkinson Thiele The Gospel was meant for a sinful mankind. The perversion of The Good News was immediate as Paul wrote extensively. Satan told Adam and Eve that they would be like God if they ate from the tree. This lie is underlying all sin…
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Kirk Martin I’m seeing this often. The burden of Black Christians to hold the Black community accountable for their misguided or wicked deeds. There are ministries and inner city programs across America designed to address Black Fatherless households, Drug Abuse, Gun Violence…etc….. MY QUESTION: Where are the White Christians who have taken the burden of admonishing their White brothers and sisters about the issues of their community?…. Black people are always talked down to and are expected to have this Moral High Ground above everyone else. And even in the face of racial injustice, we are again criticized for causing division just by demanding JUSTICE and calling out unrighteousness…. So my conclusion is: If we can’t get justice in clear cases of injustice against us. If we are not accepted as equals socially, even when we have made provisions to assimilate with in this culture. If we are told by the likes of John McAuthur “Racism is a non issue”. Then its best that we separate, and be concerned with the matters which affects us as a community, with out the help of any other group. See what people refuse to accept is that, this BODY OF CHRIST (as it relates to the American Chuch) is a microcosm of society. So just as secular society is segregated and redlined, so is the Church! But of course, this is ALL the doing of BLACK FOLK! smh
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Kirk Martin replied · 3 Replies
Neil Robinson Kirk Martin if Johnny Mac really said that he ought to be ashamed of himself. But I get it though. It doesn’t effect him. He wouldn’t know what it’s like to be followed in a store in your work uniform or a designer fitted suit. Both which has happen to me personally as well as 1000s of others like me.
Kirk Martin Bro, if i could find it i will post it here for you….Let me check.
Rick Silvera Truth be told brothers I see nothing in scripture where we (the church) are responsible for the kids of this world who are in rebellion to God. Like Solomon warned us in Proverbs 22:24-25 “Make no friendship with an angry man, And with a furious man do not go, Lest you learn his ways And set a snare for your soul.”
Our concern is to be for the elect and their kids regardless of their color.
Our concern is to be for the elect and their kids regardless of their color.
Neil Robinson replied · 5 Replies
Neil Robinson I believe Rick the life of Jesus & scripture may conflict with your statement. Jesus sat with, taught, lived with & ate with sinners. According christian teaching non-believers are sick & in need of saving.They need love, compassion, mercy & that can only be demonstrated though humanity acting as living examples, agents of the kingdom. Mark 2, Luke 5
I’m not trying to get in a jousting match of minds & verses. However I’m finding my approach in viewing text,doctrine etc to be more carefully thought out & balance. I consider you a friend don’t take my rebuttals any other way because we rarely disagree on matters.
I’m not trying to get in a jousting match of minds & verses. However I’m finding my approach in viewing text,doctrine etc to be more carefully thought out & balance. I consider you a friend don’t take my rebuttals any other way because we rarely disagree on matters.
Rick Silvera Neil Robinson If what you said about Jesus and sinners was correct then Jesus would have repeated that same mission to the 7 churches in Revelation but He did not.
You know that excuse is used by worldly Christians.
You know that excuse is used by worldly Christians.
Neil Robinson Rick Silvera Notice Rick I didn’t say lived like lol….
Rick Silvera Neil Robinson I’m taken that when you say “sinners” and “nonbelievers” you are referring to sinners and nonbelievers who are Black right? If that’s truly what you are saying would that also include sinners and nonbelievers who are white or White Supremacist or Klan members as well?
Since you want to use Jesus as an example you must also be aware that He went to Jairus the ruler of the synagogue’s house as well as offering to go to the Roman centurion’s home also right?
What if the Lord doesn’t want His people choosing sides in such race conflicts.
Since you want to use Jesus as an example you must also be aware that He went to Jairus the ruler of the synagogue’s house as well as offering to go to the Roman centurion’s home also right?
What if the Lord doesn’t want His people choosing sides in such race conflicts.
Neil Robinson Rick Silvera Rick really! That word covers people of all types according to Christian doctrine.
Sean Jermaine Do some christians appear to be more loyal to patriotism than to Christ? Great dialogue Sean Isaacs. I feel in some circles we forget our blackness where Christ is not asking us to.
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